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| velocipede |
 Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:59 am |
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Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Takarazuka, Japan
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I recently bought the new Handsonic 10. Since I found very few reviews of it when I searched before my purchase, I thought I would make a few brief comments on it and answer questions here if anyone is interested.
First of all, it feels great, in the sense that is very responsive, and is fun to play, as in it's not like programming a drum grid. The built-in sounds are good enough to get your groove on and judicious use of the effects, tuning and muting options can totally obscure the original samples. That said, the sound design options (LFO, glide, etc.) and sample banks of the original Handsonic, the HPD-10, are far more extensive.
My main interest in getting the unit, though, is as a midi control over softsynths. Its 10 pads can be freely assigned to any note numbers on a per kit basis (64 kits can be saved in the unit). So far, I've set up different kits for Live's Impulse, Reason's Redrum and an Alesis Micron Setup that I have dedicated for drum sounds.
The Handsonic also can be set to send any CC from its single knob and its D-Beam. The pads themselves are default to send poly aftertouch. Yes, poly. They can also be set to send any CC, however, but only the same CC for all 10 pads. Finally, the front two pads send CC 16 and CC 17 messages based on where the pad is played. Unfortunately, these two CCs cannot be changed. All transmission of CCs can be turned off, but not on a selective basis. Furthermore, their value ranges cannot be set. By comparison, all the CC values are fixed on the original Handsonic, so this is a slight improvement.
The front pad CC messages cause a bit of a problem with Redrum in Reason 2.5 because they control the values of 2 knobs on the unit by default. Maybe there is a way to override this, or maybe 3 could handle it, but I haven't tried very hard yet.
My setup with Impulse was better. I assigned the D-Beam, knob and pad pressure CC to effect MIX parameters for realtime tweaking. I set CC 16 and CC 17 to control filter cutoff for those two drum sounds and restricted the value range within Live. I still find it hard to control these values with my playing, so I just use it for a little semi-random timbre adjustment. Since there are two more Handsonic pads than Impulse slots, I could use them to toggle something on or off. I did this in Live 5. I suppose in 6 you could map the CCs to those new master knobs to tweak multiple parameters at once with the D-Beam, knob or pressure.
I still have not tried to use the poly aftertouch effectively, but I imagine the easiest thing to do would be to set up a different plugin synth for each percussion sound.
If you think of the Handsonic as a keyboard, it only has 10 keys with poly aftertouch, a mod wheel (the d-beam) and one knob. Of course, it's a totally different playing experience! I'm excited about actually playing percussion parts in a way that I would never be with just a keyboard.
The handsonic also has a rhythym coach function that is kicking my unfunky posterior. The coach is not a teacher, but its 6 modes are helpful in practicing keeping time, hearing and repeating patterns, and following tempo changes.
My main gripes with the unit are: no USB, internal samples cannot be replaced, front pad CC numbers are fixed, and the coach mode levels jump from easy to fairly hard suddenly.
I also bought the stand and am glad I did. I thought I would play it on my lap, but I really enjoy playing it standing. I also like to play my keyboards standing, though, because I work at my computer all day. I would say, however, the shape of this unit is more suited to lap playing that it's predecessor. Tabletop use should be fine too if you have a sturdy desk.
I have hardly touched my keyboards since purchasing it 10 days ago except to set up an arpeggiator for accompaniment! I should mention that it is possible to play with one hand and it is designed to allow its settings to be changed to play with fingers or palms. I even managed to play (simple) bass on a keyboard and percussion on the Handsonic at the same time.
I paid about US$470 (+$80 for the stand) here in Ro-land. Value for money, I would give it 7/8. I would love to see Roland add the USB/plugin technology of their SH-201, a sampler and a percussion synth in their next "pro" version of the Handsonic. |
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| velocipede |
| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:50 am |
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Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Takarazuka, Japan
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Another use of pad pressure is for rolls. This function can also be set on a per pad per kit basis with roll rates ranging from 1-30 hits per second or tempo based from 1/4 to 1/32 notes including triplets. Unfortunately, the HPD-10 does not send or receive midi clock, so you have to set the tempo manually and play in time. Changing the pressure during a roll does change the velocity. Rolls don't quantize to any grid in the Handsonic, so it is possible to play two alternating quarter note rolls, for example.
Tomorow I am going to a Roland demonstration at the Music Instrument Festival in Ikebukuro, so if I learn anything interesting about the Handsonic I will post it here. |
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| PeterKirn |
| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:51 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 822
Location: New York, NY
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This is terrific, mate; thanks. Let us know what you see at Ikebukuro, too. Mind if I post this to the main CDM page? I know there's some interest in the Handsonic out there.
The HPD-10 is running pricier here; US$600.
I like your pro suggestions, too. Personally, I could do without some of the current extra features of the Handsonic and just want the controller, but often times those aren't really adding much to the price.
Have you used the SH-201, as well? |
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| velocipede |
| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:12 am |
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Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Takarazuka, Japan
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Hi Peter, I'd be honored to have you post it on the main CDM page.
I asked a Roland rep about the possibility of a midi-only version. He said there were no plans that he knew of to do that. They were pushing the Handsonic 10 pretty hard in their area. They only had one beat up original Handsonic 15 on display but the rep claimed that they are still in production. I asked if they had a new "pro" Handsonic in the works, but, of course, he could not say.
I took a 20 minute "seminar" with Masa KING, the guy in the videos I posted before, and saw a demo in which he played V-Drums and the Handsonic. Since he was using both hand and finger techniques with the Handsonic, I asked him about his sensitivity settings on the unit. He gave me a blank look and then, after a Roland rep explained what I meant, said, oh, I just use whatever the factory settings are. I was a little surprised to realize that I knew more about the unit than the guy giving the demo, but then I thought, he's a professional percussionist! He doesn't fool around with the settings, he adapted to and learned to play the instrument. The lesson for me is that I should try to stop constantly tweaking these settings and just learn to play it consistently at one setting.
I wrote about the VIMA in the comments on your post on the main site and will post a brief report about other stuff in a new thread. I got a VIMA brochure that has pictures of a family sitting around, singing karaoke (two mics!) while the father plays the keyboard . . . and the son plays a Handsonic 10! |
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| roygbiv |
| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:33 pm |
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Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 8
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| does anyone know what the pros and cons would be between this and the new akai MPD? i want to use a pad solely for controlling software synths, but i'd like to be able to play rolls and things other than straight percussive beats. is this thing worth the extra $400? |
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| PeterKirn |
| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:49 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 822
Location: New York, NY
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| If you're interested in playing rolls, etc., I'd recommend the Korg padKONTROL over the Akai, at about $200 street. It's got a fantastic assignable roll/flam/etc. controller using a neat little touchpad. The major advantage of the Akai is having knobs and faders, but I find most people already have at least one fader box, if not a few (on keyboards and whatnot). |
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| velocipede |
| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:58 am |
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Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Takarazuka, Japan
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I agree with Peter. I would not recommend the Handsonic just to play rolls, especially since it does not do midi clock syncing. Roland needs to do a few more things to make a Handsonic that is truly computer friendly: midi clock, usb, more control over the midi parameters sent.
That said, if the idea of playing the Handsonic as an instrument, rather than just an interface, to control your software synths and samplers appeals to you, then it is probably worth checking out. If not, a pad grid, or even a keyboard with pads, is probably a better choice.
A month since I got it, I've been too busy at my "day" job to make music, but I have been playing a lot in my breaks (no pun intended). It's great stress release, may even qualify as moderate exercise and relaxes my brain in a way that playing keys usually does not. It inspires me to play in a way that I don't think pads would.
I have a few more things to say about the Handsonic that I will post later, but now I have to get back to work. |
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| roygbiv |
| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:56 pm |
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Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 8
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| thanks guys... i've been looking for a reason to go with the padKONTROL anyway, just because the pads light up. plus i don't have to wait for it to come out like the akai. |
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| Murdockscott |
| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:18 pm |
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Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 1
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Thanks very much for the information in this thread. I have been on a quest for a good pad controller that I can play with my fingertips for what seems like forever. I have tried may and have owned a few in my day but, I am continuously disappointed.
Not really being a hand percussionist, I just want something that will allow me to input natural feeling percussive elements into my tracks as well as something that I could use to break my habits/mindset and give myself a alternative for non-percussion input also.
Currently I am the sad owner of a MPC16 and I have to tell you it just sucks, at least mine does. I would say that as much as 15-20% of the time I hit a pad it doesn't fire, rendering it really useless. I had been considering a HPD-15 HandSonic for years but could just never bring myself to fork out that much cash as I doubt I would even use the sounds in it. Since I heard about the Handsonic 10 I have had a rekindled interest in my quest and this information really helps.
I can't believe it doesn't have USB though... I am loathe to buy something that recommits me to a midi interface in this day and age... ugh! lol I have a studio full of hardware but someday I aspire not to.. : )
So the way I see it the new contenders are:
padKONTROL
Handsonic 10
Akai MPD24
Also since I want a compact keyboard as well I am also considering:
M-Audio Axiom 25
Have any of you played the Akai MPD24 or the Axiom 26s pads? I really want something sensitive and expressive. So I guess my main question is will any of these controler only options respond as nicely as the Handsonics seem to? |
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| roygbiv |
| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:57 pm |
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Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 8
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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hey,
glad to find someone in the same situation i was in a few months ago. i went with the padkontrol and it's become one of my favorite pieces of gear that i've ever owned. it works flawlessly out of the box, the interface and setup is intuitive, and it's just really fun to use. it lights up when you leave it alone and makes you want to walk over to it and make music. also, i never thought i'd use the x-y pad much, but it adds an unbelievable amount of subtlety and creativity to your parts.
the pads on the axiom were disappointing for me - they feel the same as the trigger finger, which i found pretty lackluster. if you were to buy an axiom in addition to the padkontrol, then the pads could work as extra triggers, but i'd never want to rely on them. your best bet for a keyboard is the remote sl - the automapping is glitchy for some apps, but that will get worked out soon enough. plus it gives you extra pads, like the axiom.
i guess the choice of controller between the padkontrol and the akai is the sliders/faders vs. the x-y pad. MIDI faders are easy to come by, and your keyboard would probably provide enough. the design put the padkontrol over the top for me, since i'm assuming the akai pads feel equally great.
let me know what you end up going with. |
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| PeterKirn |
| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:05 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 822
Location: New York, NY
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Well, we just don't know enough about the MPD24, and so far what we do know hasn't been very positive, to be truthful. I think one of the toughest things to judge is build quality. The good news is, I will say as a reviewer I've gotten DOA units for review, so the manufacturers are just shipping out whatever they have -- they're not rigging anything. (That's why I think the recent flap over Microsoft giving away Vista and laptops is a little out of proportion. Hey, if they're crap, you won't want them for free.)
I do think the padKONTROL is the best of the trigger pad units, having used the MPD16 from Akai and owning a Trigger Finger. In fact, I can't bear to send it back, so I'll be buying it from Korg. (Er--- I mean, I hate it! Bribe me. Please?)
But not everyone likes the padKONTROL, which tells me this is really about taste. If you can get your hands on one and try it yourself, see what you think. Make sure you try it against a solid surface, and watch the velocity numbers you're getting; my feeling is that's the most scientific way to tell that you're getting what you want. |
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| arthis |
| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:32 pm |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 1
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I recently bought a HPD10 to control NI Battery 3 in cubase SX (PC). The HPD is hooked up to the midi in out of my NI Kore controller and the HPD is set to local off. Everything seems to be working well until I hit the record button in cubase to record a MIDI track. The sequencer either crashes or records just a single note when I am playing a patterm on the handpad over 4 bars. I tried to filter out all midi messages but the notes but nothing did. I also tried to record a MIDI sequence direclty from the HDP in cubase without battery, same problem. Any idea what is going wrong ? Thanks.
Arth. |
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| dead_red_eyes |
| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:38 pm |
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Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 560
Location: PDX, OR
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Wow. I think I'm gonna have to sell my Trigger Finger and go out and buy a Korg padKONTROL. That thing looks sweet!
Peter, are the pads (on the padKONTROL) bigger than the ones that are on my Korg Kontrol49 keyboard? And do you have to hit right exactly in the middle for a response? |
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| velocipede |
| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:42 pm |
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Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Takarazuka, Japan
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arthis wrote: I recently bought a HPD10 to control NI Battery 3 in cubase SX (PC). The HPD is hooked up to the midi in out of my NI Kore controller and the HPD is set to local off. Everything seems to be working well until I hit the record button in cubase to record a MIDI track. The sequencer either crashes or records just a single note when I am playing a patterm on the handpad over 4 bars. I tried to filter out all midi messages but the notes but nothing did. I also tried to record a MIDI sequence direclty from the HDP in cubase without battery, same problem. Any idea what is going wrong ? Thanks.
Arth.
Not sure. It may not be the Handsonic. Have you monitored the MIDI flow? Did you try turning off the d-beam and pressure CC, etc.? |
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| velocipede |
| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:14 am |
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Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Takarazuka, Japan
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I've been asked about using the HPD-15 with Reason 3 and other sequencers and if it has clock sync issues. For the record, I recently bought a used HPD-15 and sold my HPD-10.
I've recorded the HPD-15 (both midi and audio) with Logic 6 and used it to control Impulse in Live 5. I have not used it with Reason 3 at all and had a few issues about how the front pad position cc was sent to specific midi numbers. (This was the 10; with the 15 it may be possible to change this, but you'd have to check the HPD manual.)
Regarding clock sync, I'm not sure because I don't use it.
For anyone interested in getting either of the Handsonic models, I would highly recommend checking out the Handsonic yahoo group where there are members who have been using it for several years, some professionally.
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/handsonic
I love the Handsonic 15. (I loved the 10 and would recommend it over the 15 in some cases.) I enjoy playing it immensely and find it very inspiring. Some of the onboard sounds are horrendous, but there are plenty of options to manipulate them beyond recognition. The HPD-15 is almost a synth in this sense. If only it had a va synth engine rather than just samples. I imagine that some people can get just as much satisfaction from an Akai-style pad grid or a strip of pads like on the Axioms, but that has not appealed to me.
I just upgraded to Live 6 and after I get settled back in the USA, I'm looking forward to setting it up to work with my Handsonic and take advantage of its various realtime controllers. |
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