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| ChrisRyan |
 Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:56 pm |
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Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6
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I'm know that there are a lot of posts from people wanting to know which DAW choice is the "right" one, but I'm having trouble making the call, considering my needs, and advice would be very much appreciated.
I'm primarily interested in experimental electronic music (primarily non-step sequenced, but occasionally with some melody) and am interested in composing using different kinds of synthesis and field recordings. I want a DAW to record and manipulate these things with a good set of plugins. I current have Max/MSP, but no other registered commercial software.
I'd purchase Logic Pro 7 without question, which I can get for $300 for an academic version, however I'm concerned that Logic Pro 8 is just around the corner and I'll regret going with 7 too soon (is this a valid?). I'm secondarily interested in Live, because I've read that a few musicians that I like heavily use it for recording and performing (even ones whose music seems to be less loop-based).
I'm also considering that a new version of Logic, if it is released soon, may be for very recent-generation Macs. I currently run a G4 powerbook using OSX Panther, and I have a feeling that a new Logic version won't be compatible with it. Also, my funds are limited, so buying combinations of software might be tough right now although I'd be interested for that kind of advice as well (Reaktor seems interesting to me).
I'm eager to hear some opinions on this; more than anything, I want to start making music! Thanks. |
Last edited by ChrisRyan on Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| inasilentway |
| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:07 pm |
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Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 46
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Where do you get Logic Pro for $300? The lowest academic price I've seen is $500. As for 8, there has really been no indication of an imminent 8 release in the near future; even if it did come out and was for a more powerful computer than yours, you'll still be doing fine running 7 (and as you say, upgrading may actually be worse for your computer).
While Ableton has a great workflow, and would definitely be good for that sort of thing, it comes with a lot less in terms of bundled stuff (plenty of effects, but just a pair of samplers on the sound-generator side). You can always ReWire Max/MSP into it for sounds; Reason would be even better for generating sounds but would be an extra $200 (after academic discount). Logic, on the other hand, comes with an incredibly extensive set of built-in instruments and effects, but is not as geared towards warping audio as Ableton is.
However, the important thing is that they both have demos! Go download each and see which you like better. There's nothing that says you can't use both; after being a long-time Logic user I've just started getting addicted to Live. |
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| ChrisRyan |
| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:59 am |
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Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6
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Thanks for the reply! I kind of wonder if a Logic Pro 8 release would be very soon after an initial announcement, which I think is Apple's style. I have a feeling though that Logic Pro 7 could be very satisfying, regardless, if I did make the plunge.
Also, I believe that Logic Pro 7.2 academic costs $500 from apple.com, but many university computer stores sell the software for $299 (ex: search the U.C. Berkeley computer store via its website). |
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| G-Dub |
| Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:25 pm |
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Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 102
Location: Kirkland WA
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I don't expect Logic8 until after Leopard is released, it will be a good 6-8 months. Unless Apple does a surprise release of the OS.
Any way you can be productive now, and may not need to upgrade immediately. I usually wait a while after a release.
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| velocipede |
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:06 am |
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Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Takarazuka, Japan
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[edited to remove false information! sorry!]
Logic Pro 8 will probably come out very soon after Leopard, which will be between March and June, unless Apple ambushes Vista in January.
You might want to check out Numerology
http://www.five12.com/numerology.html
Or how about Logic Express?
What do you need and want to do?
Do you have an audio interface? If not you may want to check out the various bundles available that come with Live lite or Cubase lite, etc. If you want to do field recordings, the new Zoom H4 (with Cubase lite) looks great and even works as an interface.
HTH
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Last edited by velocipede on Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| G-Dub |
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:50 am |
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Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 102
Location: Kirkland WA
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velocipede wrote: ALERT! Logic Pro 7 is not officially compatible with Panther.
http://www.apple.com/logicpro/specs.html
It may not even work.
Logic Pro 8 will probably come out very soon after Leopard, which will be between March and June, unless Apple ambushes Vista in January.
You might want to check out Numerology
http://www.five12.com/numerology.html
Or how about Logic Express?
What do you need and want to do?
Do you have an audio interface? If not you may want to check out the various bundles available that come with Live lite or Cubase lite, etc. If you want to do field recordings, the new Zoom H4 (with Cubase lite) looks great and even works as an interface.
HTH
The current version of Logic requires Panther 10.4 and higher. I do expect that the next major upgrade will require 10.5.
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Studio G-fx
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| velocipede |
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:32 am |
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Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Takarazuka, Japan
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| Sorry! 10.4 for Intel. 10.3 for G4 and G5 PPCs. |
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| inasilentway |
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:29 pm |
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Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 46
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| How's the decision going? Have you tried the demos for both? |
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| ChrisRyan |
| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:22 pm |
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Joined: 02 Nov 2006
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Thank you for all of your responses, they've been quite helpful! I actually did decide to go with Logic Pro 7.2, and I'm very happy with it. I have some experience with it from a college class I took, so I was already accustomed to its way of working. I was drawn to it for its value, I really liked the quantity and quality of the bundled instruments and effects. Some time soon, I may be interested in buying an m-audio ozone as a midi controller and audio interface, but I want to see how comfortable I am sequencing a melody with my computer first (my piano keyboarding skills aren't as solid as my computer keyboarding skills). For field recordings I've gotten pretty enthusiastic about the Edirol R-09 after reading the CDM article collecting its reviews.
Also, I noticed before I bought Logic 7.2 it that it required OSX 10.4 and up, and I decided to get it and install it on another computer in my home. My main, personal laptop still has 10.3.9 due to some software I need to use for work; velocipede, do you know of any way to get a version of Logic running on this version? |
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| G-Dub |
| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:16 am |
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Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 102
Location: Kirkland WA
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I'm in the same boat, 10.3.9 on my Powerbook. I picked 7.2 so I could evaluate it on my core duo mini.
I'm in the middle of a project, so my Powerbook is on software lockdown.
I usually try out major OS updates on an external drive until I can verify stability. I was skipping Tiger and waiting for 10.5 before updating my OS
My plan is to clone my system drive on an external firewire drive, update that to 10.5, then boot from the external.
You could do a clean install 10.4 on an external, and retain your current setup on the internal.
From my previous experience I think Apple will support PPC 5-6 more years.
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| studio_musician |
| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:21 am |
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Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 14
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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I was in your shoes a little bit ago and went with Ableton 6 and Reason 3.0.
I haven't goten to play with Ableton unfortunately as school has been rather hard...but now that it is letting up I've been playing with Reason, and it's only $200 with the discount and I HIGHLY recommend getting it.
I wonder if I should have goten Logic though...I didn't realize it had so many more intruments...I need to find plug-in's and patches for reason...it lacks decent guitar samples out of the box, which annoys me a great deal since I want to do stuff along the lines of Four Tet.
Perhaps we could talk some though? Sounds like we're heading in the same direction =)
May I ask where/how you learned to use Max/MSP though?
I thought that was like ultra high level audio engineering software?... |
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| ChrisRyan |
| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:59 am |
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Joined: 02 Nov 2006
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Last year when I was in college at NYU, i sat in on a class called "Computer Music Synthesis" which was really Max/MSP 101 in disguise. And there is definitely enough to learn about the program for several classes; I think there were 3 classes there that were just Max/MSP/Jitter and I doubt they covered all of it. I'm really glad I did this even if the material covered was really similar to the tutorial (which itself is very useful and well-written). Sitting in on such a class is usually not big deal if you don't have the credits for it. At many levels of use, Max/MSP a real programming language (my prior classes in Java helped).
I find that it's very tempting to spend all of your time learning about new Max objects and processing methods instead of making something useful and then making music. It's also true that a lot of the musicians that use often aren't experts in programming with it. A huge reason for me getting Max/MSP was because I really really like Fennesz, and I had heard that he uses it a lot. Later I realized that, to my understanding, he doesn't know the programming aspect of it all that well and a lot of his live improv is done using a very robust and great program called Lloopp, which is community-developed and runs within Max/MSP (which may run under the free Max/MSP runtime, so check it out!).
The short version of that long-winded example is that I believe that you don't need to be an expert in Max/MSP to do useful things with it, and it may be an advantage if it frees up your creative energies. |
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| ChrisRyan |
| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:07 am |
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Joined: 02 Nov 2006
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| Also, with regard to Four Tet: I've read that his inspiration to make laptop music was Jim O'Rourke "I'm Happy and I'm singing and a 1, 2, 3 , 4," which he later found out was improvised using Max/MSP. It's a great album, and it's very likely he was using Lloopp! But Kieran Hebden makes (or has previously made) a lot of his music using Audiomulch, which can make "playable" effects chains without the heavy programming. I tried and liked it; I think a lot of people might turned off by the interface, which isn't too aesthetically appealing. (Citation previous information: http://www.junkmedia.org/index.php?i=676. |
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| trickykid |
| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:35 pm |
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Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Brooklyn
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| I also use Ableton + Reason + Recycle and after feeling like Reason is kind of a toy for awhile I revisited it and am amazed at how deep you can go, particularly into the NN-XT. |
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| studio_musician |
| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:54 am |
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Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 14
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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wow...thanks for the info! =)
Keiran is like my number one inspiration.
Reason does kind of feel like a toy...
I guess I didn't realize that to do songs in reason requires excessive skills with a keyboard...haha
is recycle really worth getting?
I need to find a Max/MSP class...I have prior programming experience, so I think I would like it...hmm...on the othe rhand, I don't wanna do too much coding.
I want to check out audiomulch though,
this setup Kerin describes, with two laptops and being able to play drums loops on one and see his waveforms on the other which he can manipulate different parts of at will...that sounds perfect!
is that setup with mulch probably?
for the most part...I am just trying to get to a level where my music sounds less "sampled garage band" and more "professionally produced". |
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